What "Expenses Off the Top" Means and Why It Matters
"80/20 after expenses" can pay you $240 less than "80/20" on the same night. Which costs venues deduct and how to keep them honest.
By Team Roadi · Updated · 3 min read
Part of How Bands Get Paid: The Indie Band Money Guide, from The Indie Band Survival Guide.
Quick Reference
"Expenses off the top" means certain costs are deducted from the gross door revenue before your percentage is calculated. This directly reduces your payout. The bigger the expenses, the smaller the pool you're splitting.
When a venue or promoter says "80/20 after expenses," that "after expenses" is doing all the work in the sentence.
Here's the math:
Without expenses: 100 people × $10 = $1,000 gross. Your 80% = $800.
With $300 in expenses: 100 people × $10 = $1,000 gross. Minus $300 expenses = $700 net. Your 80% = $560.
That's a $240 difference. On the same night. With the same crowd. The expenses are what changed your payout.
Common Expenses
Sound engineer: $100 to $200. This is the house engineer running the PA. Most small venues include this in their operating costs and don't charge it to the band. Larger venues and promoter-run shows almost always deduct it.
Door person / box office: $50 to $100. Someone has to take money at the door. Some venues eat this cost. Some pass it to you.
Security: $50 to $150 per guard. Venues with a capacity over 200 usually require security. This cost is often split between all acts on the bill or deducted from the gross.
Marketing and advertising: $100 to $500. This is the slippery one. A promoter might deduct $300 for marketing. Did they actually spend $300? Did they put up two Instagram posts and call it marketing? You often have no way to verify this number.
Hospitality / catering: $50 to $200. This covers whatever food and drinks were provided in the green room. If your hospitality was a case of PBR and a veggie tray, question a $200 hospitality deduction.
Venue rental / room fee: Some venues charge a flat rental fee before the door split. This is essentially a four-wall deal, where you're renting the room and keeping the door. It can work in your favor if you draw well, but it's a risk if you don't.
How to Protect Yourself
Get every expense itemized in the deal memo. Dollar amounts, not categories. "Production: $150" is better than "production expenses." "Sound: $100, door: $75, security: $100" is better than "production: $275."
If an expense shows up at settlement that wasn't in the deal, you have every right to question it. Politely. But firmly.
"This shows a $200 marketing charge. That wasn't in the deal we agreed to. Can we talk about that?"
Most venue operators and promoters are honest. But the ones who aren't are counting on you being too tired, too polite, or too uninformed to question a line item at 12:30am.
Frequently Asked Questions
What does "expenses off the top" mean?
It means agreed costs are deducted from the gross door before your percentage is calculated. On $1,000 gross at 80/20, you get $800 with no expenses but $560 after $300 in expenses. Same crowd, $240 less.
What expenses do venues deduct from a band's door?
The common ones are the sound engineer ($100 to $200), door person ($50 to $100), security ($50 to $150 per guard), marketing ($100 to $500), hospitality ($50 to $200), and sometimes a flat room fee.
Can I question an expense at settlement?
Yes. If a charge appears that wasn't in the deal, ask about it politely and firmly. The best protection is getting every expense itemized in dollars in the deal memo before the show.